I am hopeful that we are not all that far appart in our understanding. I certainly agree that Romans 1 and 2 is a great place to start.

Starting with the Catechism you looked to 847-848, but did you look at 846?

**** CCC 846********
How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
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So it is clear, the Church doesn’t disagree with you on this point. Salvation is through Jesus Christ alone. 847-848 must be understood as further explanation of 846 and they do no change that all salvation is through Christ alone. Rather, as 848 puts it “in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please Him.”

You reference the very end of Rom 1:20 “So they are without excuse” and I agree, but it is also important to recognize why they are without excuse. The are without excuse because God is revealed to them through his creation and that truth is suppressed by their wickedness.

*** ****Rom 1:18-21 ****
For the wrath of God is revealed from the heaven against all ungodliness and wickedness of men who by their wickedness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. Ever since the creation of the world His invisible nature, namely, His eternal power and deity, has ben clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse, for although they knew God they did not honor Him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking and their senseless minds were darkened.”
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I think this is important because it demonstrates that even without the scriptures, the covenant, the testimony of the faithful, it is POSSIBLE that God can be known and honored through man’s reason and observation of nature.

I think it is helpful to remember that Paul is talking not about individuals but about societies and also that Paul isn’t actually intending to answer the specific question we have at hand. Still, I think it is germain that Paul does make clear that nature does reveal God and that man through reason can come to worship God and have knowledge of natural law and that is the very reason that they can be found guilty.

I think Rom 2-16 is pertinent as a whole, but Rom 2:14-16 is most directly related to our question. Especially the final half verse “God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.” We aren’t the Judge and we shouldn’t presume to be. God is the Judge.

**** Rom 2:14-16****************
When the Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
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So, to wrap it up, 1) The only reason “man” (outside of the Law of Israel and also the Christian Faith) can stand condemned is because “they” are guilty of not observing what “they” can know from nature about God. 2) Someone can come to know God and natural law without knowing “the Law” or “the Church” and 3) God will judge the secrets of all men – not us. Remember that Rom 2 begins with a very strong admonition to Christians not to “pass judgement” on others.

So, at the very least, since we are NOT TO JUDGE and GOD will Judge and it is possible for some person or group to come to know something of God and His law from nature and reason, It is at least POSSIBLE that some may be saved without visible participation in the Faith of Jesus Christ “in ways known to himself God.”

The alternative is to take away a Judgement that Paul specifically reserves for God alone and to deny that such people can really be guilty of sin, since it would mean denying there was any way at all possible that they could have know how to live so as to avoid sinning. Thus they would incur God’s Wrath without actually being culpable.

The Church has never defined what that mechanism might be. Baptism of Desire is very commonly theorized and widely accepted. Another possibility is that an Angel might visit a righteous man before death and offer him the Gospel. We don’t know. I lean towards the thought that such situations are not overly abundant. Others tend to believe that very many may be saved. The Church teaches that a) there is hope for the salvation of every individual and b) every single person on earth is given enough grace to be saved if they avail themselves of it . (No one is condemned to hell from birth, everyone has a chance at salvation).

If Doug Beaumont wants, we can certainly move this to another forum. The thread from “Called to Communion” I posted above might be appropriate. There are certainly Catholics there who can articulate these things more concisely and quickly than I manage and there are often other Protestants who are very good at challenging the Catholic position.

Thanks for the interaction Matthew. Peace!

GNW_Paul

GNW_Paul,
While I am a Protestant, even though I’m not exactly protesting anything, I do have a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I even grew up going to a Roman Catholic School, attending Mass, and going to CCD. So please don’t take my comments as an attack personally upon you or your beliefs. Upon reading the numbered passages you cited I cannot reconcile those to the Scriptures in particular, and the Gospel message in general. I would point to Romans 1. It states that people are without excuse because God has shown it to them. “It” being the Truth. If a person were to sincerely seek God, as the common interpretation of CCC 847-848, stipulates, they would “find” the One True God. If “God is not willing that any should perish, but that all come to repentance and the knowledge of Jesus Christ,” then He would not, could not leave an honest seeker adrift.
If a person of a different religion, never having received the fruits of the Gospel of Jesus, can be saved then there was no need for Jesus to die on the Cross.

I apologize to Mr. Beaumont, as this posting is almost entirely off-topic.